Please before reading this post I encourage you to read part 1 of clubs myths and misunderstandings.
I don ‘t know what is going on lately a lot of shit posts about clubs, not only by players, but by gurus, it is all over the place not only in forums, but in the manosphere.
There are a lot of blog posts basically trashing clubs (I attached some at the end of the blog)…Even some legit people that I love and respect such as revlifestyledesign, Cobi, StrenghbySonny, Good Looking Loser etc…. (of course the commonality is that those dudes are not hard core club gamers and probably never were, and/or retired from clubbing). Anyways, I started doing research and putting together a post to debunk the whole thing, but in doing so I found this conversation that a seducer by the name of Teevesters aka TVA-OSLO (one of the best club gamers in Europe and a good friend) was having with another seducer named Tarzan ( an intermediate club gamer), which basically breaks down everything in very understandable terms…
So here is a great interaction that I put together based on observation and a dialog between a club gamer named Teevester and a frustrated clubber named Tarzan:
Tarzan: “These were all very good clubs.- prime spots in well known party towns. Supposedly the crème de la crème of hookup clubs. The type of places an experienced clubber would assume to foster numerous hookups even on weekdays. And I went out to all of them in prime nights: Friday and Saturday.”
Teeverster: “First of all we need to think twice before even considering a popular spot. I have been to many well known famous clubs like Pacha, Tresor, Mania, Lazur, Ministry Of Sound and a few others. These were big flashy clubs, with lots of people, crazy cover charges, crazy prices inside. These clubs often looks really fancy and has often good dj’s playing there, so at least the music can be decent, yet, the vibe there is rather too artificial and you will most likely not get laid there. All you will end up with is an empty bank account (the exception is Tresor in Berlin, as the prices there are decent).
The reasons you won’t get laid there is because:
1) When you hit a famous club, people go there to visit it! like take pictures there and stuff. People enjoy just being there, they find it exciting. Therefore getting laid is far from being a priority. Clubs that are not that fancy are not exciting in themselves, hence people go there for other reasons (getting laid).I always get laid more at “less famous venues”. Try for yourself and you will see that the vibe at less well-known places will be better.
2) Secondly such clubs market themselves as “the popular place to be”. This will attract status whores. These girls tends to go clubs with their friends, and tend to be very attention seeking.
3) These places tends to have a bad ratio. That is never good, not only is the fact that a reduced amount of available girls is bad in itself, but it also puts a higher prize on each of the women, making them behave even more bitchy.
4) Forget about verbal game.
5) Only places to meet women is the dance floor. Now this is not really a problem in itself, yet when dance floor is the only way to meet women, what happens is that all men have to approach on the dance floor. And that means that most men will approach women in a creepy way, and will simply result in making women even more defensive. Also as you can’t talk, you can really do any smooth damage control and smoothly get back in the game. Basically… you end up with having to deal with a serious numbers game (in big venues, its usually all about being the best at the numbers game, especially on dance floors), and now add the fact that you are doing the numbers game with defensive girls. Very bad odds for you.
6) The chaos factor should also be considered. High chaos factor will not only create many obstacles, but also make women more defensive. Why are women always in groups of 3+ in such clubs? because of the chaos, the chaos scares them and they are afraid of losing each other. In a small less chaotic venue where people can actually find each other easily in the club, such tight defensive groups of girls would not exist.
7) These places attracts mixed groups. I have been to clubs like this, often times with groups of people. Now I dislike going out with many people, but I have at least tried it. All I end up with is flirting with the girls from my own group.
8) Clubs with famous dj’s are fun, but not good if you want to get laid there. in such a case, people come for the music!
I have gotten laid from some famous big ass clubs before. Once was at Pacha. I got laid there twice. One time with a girl I actually came there with (whom I almost fucked the night before). The second time, I got laid with a gogo dancer who actually lived with me for a few days prior.
I have also gotten laid at Lazur in Bulgaria with a Russian chick, but I didn’t meet her inside the club, but outside. Club Lazur has an amazing outdoor area! it’s huge. She was Russian and my wing was Russian, and he translate everything I said, and he translate back what she said. It was a funny night! else I have not pulled from any well-known clubs, and I have pulled a lot from clubs.”
Tarzan: “What bothers me most is not my own lack of success (I have yet to lay a chick I met at a club) but how there doesn’t seem to be much success, in general, for anyone”
Teevester: “In such clubs, nope, people don’t get laid much, unless they 1) know the girl prior to heading to that club (which in my opinion makes it into social circle game rather than nightgame), 2) boyfriend/girlfriend going home to their place and fucking like every other fucking couples.
But this is the case only in such venues!
I’ve been observing very carefully and simply do not see large numbers of chicks getting pulled.”
Tarzan: “For starters, all chicks come to clubs in groups. Most of these groups are pretty lame, functioning as a formidable – at the extreme, insurmountable – obstacle for the chances of any member to get laid: groups of co-workers, groups of fellow students, mixed groups of the above types, and of course all the chicks coming to clubs with their boyfriends.”
Teevester: “Yes! in famous big super expensive clubs YES!”
Tarzan: “The only group that seems at all conducive to hooking up are the FF two-set, which appear to be a tiny minority.”
skills clarification: *By FF he means 2 girls by themselves
Teevester: “Again same thing”
Tarzan: “Other groups were less obvious and strict, but not less effective in preventing any female member from getting laid (not that the males had any chance of success). Sometimes some poor guy would be dancing and entertaining and buying drinks for his target all night, with her group seemingly welcoming him. But at the end of the night, the group stuck together and left together, and the guy(s) just stayed there, alone.”
Teevester: “Well in such a case, the man had to isolate, escalate and see where it goes. If it goes nowhere, he has to persist, if not get the fuck out! I wouldn’t see such types of sets as a bad thing. Problem is, most men do not know how to proceed.”
Tarzan: “If my observations are accurate, then the vast majority of girls at the club every night are almost certainly not going to be pulled. Which makes nightgame unproductive: In a dozen nights out at all these great clubs, including a few who charge very high entrance fees from anyone but hot girls, I’ve seen only a handful of pulls. Believe me, I looked.”
Teevester: “Wrong, this makes -picking up women at expensive big famous venues- unproductive. It does not make night game is unproductive. Check out: bars!!! jeez at bars you can do verbal game and the vibe is so different to clubs. Believe it or not, club game and bar game are actually two different things. If you want to stick to club game, keep in mind that it requires a high skill level to pull from clubs. It will require practice, lots of it. The reason being is because it will all go so fast, and you need to seduce a girl in an environment with lots of obstacles. Now, club game is possibly the most difficult types of game out there. However, club game will often lead to the most crazy stories ever. Like most of the wild sex I have had were from clubs. It will be much easier from you to pull from a bar, from the street (day game) or from online… but club game has the positive side that, once you get laid, the sex becomes way more exciting. There is a certain kick to get from night game. The whole spontaneity of just meeting a girl and fuck her an hour later is also really exciting. Pros and cons my friend.
If you want to get in club game, try out alternative venues (indie rock places, minimal techno places etc), smaller clubs (women won’t be in huge groups!!!), clubs with cheap(er) alcohol (tends to attract DTF girls). Just try out different venues, because some venues just have better logistics than others and some clubs just have a better vibe and better people.
Yes it is possible to get laid at venue you described in your op, but all i can see working is something like Mystery Method. Mystery Method was in fact designed for such a clubs where value was everything to people going there. Mystery method also puts a lot of emphasis on dealing with big cockblocky girls, with bitchy girls. Check that out if you are into that. Honestly, you can find as hot girls in other venue, so why work harder for nothing?
All good night gamers (apart from mystery method fans) are all good at two crucial elements of night game:
– Venue selection (pick the right venue)
– Target selection (doesn’t matter which venue you are in, you will have to spot the DTF, they won’t come running to you)
This how all the modern good night gamers do it.”
Tarzan: “All of this paints a grim picture of night game: despite all the hype, the majority of attractive guys and girls who spend hours to perfect their looks and sometimes over $100 on cover and drinks, end up alone at the end of the night. Even the few successful lays generated in the club seem to be based on prior acquaintance. That means that as a guy going there alone (or even with a wing) without already knowing anyone, your chances will be very, very slim.”
Teevester: “If you think clubs are made for you to get laid, then you are wrong. Clubs are made to make money. The clubs you describe are like big money machines. Your complaint is like the one from a guy going to Vegas and complaining that he didn’t get rich!”
Tarzan: “I should also mention that all the guys I saw pulling were tall, muscular, and very attractive physically”
Teevester: Yeah, girls that visit the venues you are describing often are attracted to the muscular douchey guy.
Finally, this is an interesting point brought up by another seducer named Strenght by Sonny to the question “how many women are pulled from clubs/bars in a night?”
Strength by Sonny: not many to be honest…. PUA grossly over-exaggerates the idea that all chicks can be pulled and fucked (all you need is the right amount of game)
Most chicks are not down… meaning no one has a chance at pulling them home and fucking them
Best bet is to find the potentially DTF ones… that’s what will make this most efficient for you
Notice how all good seducers that are best at night game follow the same pattern which is focusing on down to fuck women, as I teach in my method and talk about in here.
Here are some of the blog samples from other really good seducers kind of putting down night game:
By good looking loser
http://www.goodlookingloser.com/entry/get-laid/an-introduction-and-misconception-about-party-club-game
by the revlifestyledesign
How Nightclubs Work and Why They’re Bad Places To Pick Up Women
^ all of the above OPINIONS are not necessarily true if you do it right, specially if you follow my method, if you go often enough to a club, there are many many dudes getting laid from clubs including myself… If you go to clubs every once in a while is useless, just like if in day game you do it once every 3 months or online if you message only 5 girls your results will be horrible… Get me?
Out!
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